John informs us once again about another wonderful update to his latest upcoming masterpiece slated for a release sometime next month. Anybody who has been keeping up with the times knows that this book has little chance of being any different than John's Why I Became an Atheist drivel. He constantly hammers away at attempting to be persuasive in his arguments which boil down to "Christianity is a religion and therefore it's bad for you."
Worst of all, John has already revealed that most if not all of his rails against Christianity are directed at conservative and fundamentalist crowds, not any type of sophisticated theology or Christian philosophy. If John is trying to persuade the masses that fundamentalist and ultra-right wing Christianity is bad for society, then he has already attained victory. But once you start breaking away from the typical Christian soundbites, cliche' remarks, and outdated arguments, then Loftus is probably without any limbs to stand on. In fact, if you have deviated from most of Loftus' attempts at convincing you how great his arguments are by addressing the things he almost never brings up, you quickly discover Loftus is without a starting platform.
Why should I even begin to point out that the "Why faith fails" premise is a stupid one? If Loftus, like so many others, defines faith as "believing in things without evidence", then why is he writing books supposedly full of substantial evidence to disprove the validity of faith?
One could say that The Christian Delusion is an unclever takeoff on The God Delusion which seeks to demonstrate the delusional precepts of theistic beliefs, just as John is trying to do with Christianity.
My predicition is that when push comes to shove, nothing contained in The Christian Delusion will provide any insight. It is a rehashing of sentiments put forth by those much more experienced than John, and perhaps it is the case that John knows this. There is nothing wrong with making a name for yourself: That is the American dream. Yet, it is wrong to sell something you probably know doesn't work to someone who is expecting a lot more in return. No ethical person is a snake-oil salesman.
So, much like how McDonalds calls its food "nutritious in value" and how Taco Bell tries to pass itself off as the new Subway, we can probably state with reasonable expectational standards that The Christian Delusion is another repackaged remake of things that stood out much more in the past than in the present. More people are apt to have the iPhone than any other smartphone out there, but that doesn't stop Google from making its own product, albeit slightly fashioned after the Apple's original design. Hence, an apparently obvious principle of marketing is that you can't get people attracted to something they expect is already in existence in terms of function and intended purpose. Instead, you take concept A, dress it up, make a few rearrangements to it, and then pass it off as concept "B".
DC post link: http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2010/03/christian-delusion-books-have-been.html
Saturday, March 27, 2010
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There's many books one can read on atheism and religion. So why do you concentrate on anything and everything that "John Loftus" writes? Especially since anything he writes or edits is, according to you, totally worthless. Does that mean your constant harping on a single individual's writings is less than worthless?
ReplyDeleteAt least John is taking on a challenge, i.e., something huge, a major world religion, and all you're taking on is a single individual's writings. And neither does John claim that any of his writings are inerrant, at least he can continue to refine his views over time. Will he ever become a deist like you, truthbetold? We don't know. What kind of deist are you anyway? One that is partial to Christianity? You certainly don't sound like a Thomas Paine deist and his view of the Bible, nor even like a Jeffersonian deist and his view of the Bible.
And why do you expect John to deal with every argument in religion and philosophy? I don't know of any book that deals with every question from conservatives, moderates, liberals, and includes replies to both the least sophisticated and most sophisticated arguments.
It sounds more to me like you are blaming John for not composing a twelve volume encyclopedia.
And why spend the effort attempting to foul the water before John's new book has even been published and read? Again, you don't do that for every up and coming book that contains views contra your own, do you?
Also, can't we perhaps agree on something? I don't think that religion is going to vanish off the face of the earth tomorrow, especially due to any one book. Nor do I think any book is going to convert everyone.
The give and take of debates also seems likely to drag on for quite some time, perhaps forever. There's always something to debate it seems in this cosmos. People are writing books back and forth. Dawkins's bestseller seems to have spawned a cottage industry of books published in reply to his and to the other bestselling atheist works. Even Hitchens' brother has a new book about leaving atheism for Christianity and says that poetry and art affected him deeply in his decision to return. Meanwhile, a former Christian convert and nationwide Evangelical speaker and Jew for Jesus recently left Christianity and wrote a memoir about leaving titled, Coming Full Circle: A Jewish Woman's Journey Through Christianity and Back by Penina Taylor. She returned to Judaism, which is pretty close to deism, your view, is it not?
People are debating as never before, lots of public debates. I can't recall that many when I was in high school or college. And with the internet anyone can view such debates online any time. Christians versus Muslims. Christians versus atheists. Catholics versus Evangelicals. The Orthodox haven't yet gotten into the whole debate thing. But I've seen a book of testimonies of Christians who left Evangelicalism and Catholicism for the Orthodox faith.
Atheism remains in the news and some atheist books have become bestsellers as never before in world history. That much is true.
CONTINUED
ReplyDeleteAnd religions, including "Christianities" (plural) continue to proliferate and spread forth like branches from a tree, evolutionarily speaking. Congregations continue splitting in various independent conservative Christian churches. And a host of variants of Bible belief continue to arise. The rise of Pentecostalism was pretty amazing from Azuza Street in 1905 to a billion strong today, including a major branch that has rejected the Trinity. And other branches of Pentecostalism that thrive on miracles galore, especially in less developed nations in Africa and South America. Of course stories of visions of the Virgin Mary continue pouring in from Catholics around the globe. My mom attended a Marian conference recently held here in Greenville. And Near Death Experiences have never exactly proven the truth of any one faith, let along "Evangelical Christianity." My mind boggles at it all. That explains my agnostic tendencies. (Like you, I'd like to think there's an afterlife, a reviving after death, memories intact, personality intact.)
It is also true that being a Christian minister or even a Christian at an Evangelical college is difficult. There's a relatively high drop out rate for Christian ministers. The figures are on the net. But I could pull some up for you. It's a difficult job in a difficult time, especially financially. The wealthy mega church ministers are making due, but pity the smaller church ministers. And I read that even the once highly popular Crystal Cathedral of Rob Schuller, Mr. Positive, is not paying people it used to pay, such as Easter Play set designers.
And if you read Christianity Today you'll notice that even Evangelical colleges are having difficulties deciding what to do with professors whose religious views undergo changes during their tenure there. Some professor's views move away from young-earth toward old-earth, or they move toward evolution or toward universalism or questioning inerrancy, or converting to say, Catholicism. Wheaton had one prof who converted to Catholicism. And the president of the Evangelical Theological association also converted to Catholicism, and both left their respective positions. A prof at Wheaton who taught biology was not rehired presumably because he taught human evolution without introducing a biblical "creation" message alongside the strictly evolutionary perspective. Though he says he was never told anything formally when he was let go except that he wasn't a good enough "match" for Wheaton. What's happening at Wheaton is also happening at other Evangelical institutions. Even Southern Baptist seminaries, which presumably were heavily young-earth creationist and definitely inerrantist for a while after the fundamentalist takeover in the 1980s are now hiring professors whose views are not necessarily young-earth creationist any longer, and I think some of them also take quite a wide view of inerrancy.
And a new website was founded last year by a Christian who used to head the Human Genome Project, who has gathered together other Evangelicals to speak on his site who all assert the truth of biological evolution (including questioning I.D. and questioning concordancy views of Genesis 1 and modern science). The website is worth a peek, it's titled BIOLOGOS. And check out the research papers there especially the one by Brian Godawa:
http://www.biologos.org/projects/scholar-essays
There's many books one can read on atheism and religion. So why do you concentrate on anything and everything that "John Loftus" writes? Especially since anything he writes or edits is, according to you, totally worthless.
ReplyDeleteGee Edski, that wouldn't be because this site is titled Debunking LOFTUS, now would it?
Besides, your complaint doesn't mean much. I have been far too busy to regularly update this blog like I used too.
At least John is taking on a challenge, i.e., something huge, a major world religion, and all you're taking on is a single individual's writings.
Not quite Edski. John isn't taking on "a major world religion" he's fixating on fundamentalist denominations. I believe we've been over this before.
And neither does John claim that any of his writings are inerrant, at least he can continue to refine his views over time.
I never said that he did. He just doesn't want to admit the extent of his inaccuracies because they call into question his credibility with most of anything he says.
What kind of deist are you anyway? One that is partial to Christianity? You certainly don't sound like a Thomas Paine deist and his view of the Bible, nor even like a Jeffersonian deist and his view of the Bible.
If you're really that interested Edski we'll say for the sake of argument I'm a Jeffersonian. So now we can put an end to that.
And why do you expect John to deal with every argument in religion and philosophy? I don't know of any book that deals with every question from conservatives, moderates, liberals, and includes replies to both the least sophisticated and most sophisticated arguments.
We are merely analyzing John's claims and supposed intentions. And it just so happens his claim that Christianity can be debunked by the likes of him is something that has yet to be demonstrated. If Loftus shows an inability to grasp with the most complex factors of Christian thought, then Christianity hasn't been debunked by his writings. Presto!
It sounds more to me like you are blaming John for not composing a twelve volume encyclopedia.
I'm going to end up repeating myself for you. Go back and read what I've said exactly Babinski, and then we'll talk further.
And why spend the effort attempting to foul the water before John's new book has even been published and read? Again, you don't do that for every up and coming book that contains views contra your own, do you?
It's not about whether John has views that are contrary to my own. Irrelevant, Babinski. Totally irrelevant. Again, it's John's goals that are being tested here, not what he believes. I'm merely criticising his new book because the likelihood of it containing any insightfulness is extremely slim. I've read some of John's WIBA and found it to be logically incoherent. His disagreement with Christianity is a non-issue for me Babinski, I'm more interested in his own claims and sentiments rather than what he "believes."
Eddie B's first comment/question shows his blind loyalty to his god:
ReplyDeleteThere's many books one can read on atheism and religion. So why do you concentrate on anything and everything that "John Loftus" writes?
LOL-LOL!!! As Truth B Told said...it 'might" have something to do with the title of the blog Eddie??? Ya think???
I didn't have to read any further than that to realize that Eddie's commentary is a complete waste of time...
Thanks fellas
Now Ed, you just don't seem to get it yet, do you. Here's another example:
ReplyDeleteWhy, you may also have been wondering, do some people believe one thing, while others believe something else? Because that's how they label themselves, dummy.
Do you understand now?
You poor fool, you while away your life, aimlessly researching and churning out articles, never quite grasping the obvious.
Let me know if I can be of any more help to you. ;-)