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Tuesday, August 10, 2010

The Debunking Loftus Challenge

Many people come onto this site with a sympathetic view of John Loftus, the founder and manager of Debunking Christianity. Some individuals, like Sarah Boylen, have admitted to their own ignorance of the issues between the ongoing Holding/Loftus fueds despite the fact that she automatically assumes with Loftus and immediately classifies Holding and myself as antagonists:

"I don't know much about Loftus or Holding.

...From what I can tell Holding has been at this for more than ten years and yet he's still less than a small fry. He appears to be an unrepentant internet bully and cheap insult artist

...Your left handed "Loftus is worse" defense is pretty darned shallow. Especially for a self-important anointed man of God.

...Maybe his piddly little ad hominems and backdoor character assassinations are keeping him right where he belongs. Dancing to the same old worn out children's song.

Again, I'm not very familiar with either of them but unlike Holding, Loftus seems to have learned a lesson. He's getting some positive attention. That must get Holding's ample panties in big old bunch."


Doing only the slightest of research and objective measuring of the issues doesn't seem to serve very many people all that well these days. So instead of reciting the same old collected evidence point for point, I am now issuing a challenge to all of those who would rather take Loftus' side than ours, and would rather trust in his judgment rather than actual rationality.

So now it's time to issue our own "challenge" to those of you (and you know who you are) in the audience that are inclined to such a backwards perception. Apparently you guys take the time of day to post on this blog with your comments, surely it must be important enough for you guys to prove to yourselves whether or not Loftus is the lesser of the two "evils."

Put aside your viewpoints, philosophies, and biases for a moment and actually try striking up a challenge to how John runs the show. It's that simple. You owe it to yourself and would be doing a disjustice if you didn't do so. You might want to ask John exactly what he means when he says he isn't insulting the disabled, when he does in fact bring up derogatory references to disabled people not once, but in fact, twice.

Fundamentally speaking, however, only those who are not completely swayed by Loftus' rhetoric will be capable of successfully partaking in the challenge. This is especially geared towards those who choose to sit on the fence and must decide for themselves. The issuance of this challenge is not meant to garner endorsements from participants. It is to hear what your experiences are afterwards. If it can be substantiated that John Loftus is a morally good and sane person, then feel free to show us, then you may lather us all you want with accusations of character assasination and the like.

Until then, as it is often said in these here parts, "put up or shut up."

Oh, and, here are some resources you can use to guide you along in the process:

Procedures of Moral Justification

The Will Theory Approach



  1. This was my first reaction to this article:
    Even if Loftus is more popular than J.P. Holding... so what?

    I only know Loftus because he's a Christianity basher, not because he has acheived anything notable in science, philosophy, history or any other fields.

    Also Dawkins is also very popular... but his book is hardly worth the paper is printed on... and Loftus books do not do a much better job (although still better than Dawkins I guess...)

    Popularity means little... Sure Loftus has a lot of new atheism fanboys (but then so do people like Ke$ha...), but that says more about the ignorance of the atheist movement than anything else.

  2. I couldn't agree with you more Ismael, you're spot on with the money.

  3. I'm new to this site. I wish I'd found this site when there was still time to vote. But better late than never. I posted my full rant on your comment policy page, just to make sure everybody would see it.

    I'm not even a Xtian. I went to Loftus' site looking for somebody to agree with and laugh with. A bunch of his paranoid followers, who obviously forgot how to read during all those years in grad school *snerk* started a pile-on over something I didn't even say.

    I despise those people because they argue like Men's Rights Activists. A dood has to be overcompensating for something really tiny to accuse a lady of 'wanting to feel superior' for stating that she likes Monty Python :-P

    The lack of women stopping by Loftus' site was warning bell#1. Their affiliation with the Apologists should have tipped me off that they'd be misogynists. It doesn't surprise me that they attack the disabled too. That's what weak people do.

    So Loftus has a new book out, and he's trying to get his 3 pedantic friends to nominate it for some award. He doesn't deserve any awards. My nominations will always go to Hemant Mehta. Hemant's site is the best.

    I'm trying to hit some of the people who have Loftus on their blog rolls to stop advertising for that stuffed shirt, and take their links down.

    If you folks really want to stick it to Loftus, I would recommend you use the new SOPA guidelines. Get as much plagiarized crap deleted from his site as you can, and then put the evidence out before the nomination committees. He won't be able to win a spitting contest after that.

  4. Why does an atheist feel they have to change a believers belief. It's like a child who dosent have the mental ability to agree to disagree. There anger towards another's beliefs are the result of limited minds. Which is more plausible, that all the stuff in the universe was just here. That's like saying the shoes you wear were just here, there was no designer and no manufacturer, they just are they were brought into existence by a big bang. Once again I stress limited minds. There was a designer and a manufacturer of the shoes. Class over. Now get over it. It is my right to believe what I beleive. The only difference is I think before I speak.


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